Comfortably Numb

[possessedblanket]

In the age where ADHD medication and antidepressants are as widely consumed as Pez during the early nineties, many people believe that it is time to draw a line and say “enough is enough.” Psychological disorders like depression can be very serious and many people need these drugs to be functional and sometimes, to stay alive. However, more and more psychiatrists are over-prescribing these drugs to individuals who simply need a little more sunshine and exercise in their lives. Eventually, these “disturbed” individuals become dependent on the drug and need it to feel “normal.”

Another glaring example is the prescription of ADHD medication to children and adolescents. Although there are severe cases where the child needs the medication to be functional in school, many children are being prescribed these drugs simply because they’re being children. As long as the parents are satisfied and the paycheck is on time, doctors don’t mind being generous with their prescription pad. Many parents feel overwhelmed when it comes to disciplining their troublesome children, and who can really blame them; however, that is no excuse to immediately shift the blame onto a psychological disorder and call it a day.

Do you think that these psychological drugs are over-prescribed in today’s society? If so, how do we start remedying the situation?

[stopwatch]

I think you can safely say that a drug is overprescribed when idiots are using it recreationally, when nearly 50% of young boys are being classified as "in need of evaluation" by their teachers, and when college students fake the disorder to give them an academic edge. The situation is fucked up.

I think one important step is to take away a doctor's (MD) right to prescribe psychiactic medication unless they have special accreditation. Most of the problem is that doctors see a patient who they can't help physically (or just THINK they can't), and tell them to see a psychiatrist. But, since it can take months to get an appointment with a psychiatrist, and even longer than that for the medication to start to kick in, doctors get the patient on meds before an professional, educated psychiatric opinion is given.

[Jenn]

Do you think that these psychological drugs are over-prescribed in today’s society? If so, how do we start remedying the situation?

I sure do. My son has been diagnosed with ADHD, and they're trying to throw medicine at him. I am giving him a year. I am in no rush to medicate my child. It is just kindergarten and with strict discipline, and encouragement, he will be okay. However, with that being said, when he starts first grade and still not listening and extremely hyper, I will have to consider putting him on something. He is an extremely smart child, and the child study team evaluated him and did IQ testing for preschoolers, and his score was almost above average, but he doesn't apply himself and that's going to be a problem when grades matter.

But yes, I believe that the drugs are over-prescribed. I also believe that doctors are quick to tell a parent that their child has ADHD just because they are a bit hyper. I believe in second opinions. Kids will be kids. It's not always ADHD.

Parents these days need to learn how to discipline their children. You have to give tough love sometimes or IMO, the child is going to grow up thinking they have the world by the balls and they can get whatever they want and do whatever they want. It starts early. So in order to possibly prevent that, a parent has to actually mean what they say. I did it at first, I told my son if he didn't listen, I would spank him or put him in time out.. I did that so much and never followed through that he started taking advantage until I really put my foot down and learned the hard way that he has to be disciplined the right way.

It all boils down to this. By spending a good amount of time with them, working with them, avoiding caffeine and sugar, and being there for them, ADHD can most likely be treated and without any medication.

I was always against medicating children until I realized that sometimes they do need it to progress in school. But to start giving like, a 3 year old meds because he's hyper? Get the fuck outta here. Kids have so much energy and they need to get it out. Some doctors who agree with medicating that early are cuckoo.:yociexp34:

[Jenn]

I think one important step is to take away a doctor's (MD) right to prescribe psychiactic medication unless they have special accreditation. Most of the problem is that doctors see a patient who they can't help physically (or just THINK they can't), and tell them to see a psychiatrist. But, since it can take months to get an appointment with a psychiatrist, and even longer than that for the medication to start to kick in, doctors get the patient on meds before an professional, educated psychiatric opinion is given.

That is so true. My sons doctor tried to diagnose him with ADHD and start him on medicine. I put my foot down and demanded to see a behavioral specialist.There is NO way I would allow a regular pediatrician diagnose my son on something he does not specialize in.

[Bunnee]

How do you define "Today's Society"?

Are we talking American Society or everywhere?

[Amythist]

I think that they are quick to medicate! The solution is simple. Take care and manage your child. Let them be kids for christ sake. I remember being hyper as a kid! Deal with it. They look to us the parents for their guidance. Are children tend to be an example of us...So what does that tell you. There are troublesome children. I do feel for the parents who try to handle troubled kids. It is sad and I give them Kudos for their strength. Just know the damn difference between a kid being a testy kid and a child who is in need of attention.

[stopwatch]

How do you define "Today's Society"?

Are we talking American Society or everywhere?

I think all of us were talking about American Society (we don't know enough about what's going on elsewhere to be able to generalize).

What's the situation on your end?

[Bunnee]

I think all of us were talking about American Society (we don't know enough about what's going on elsewhere to be able to generalize).

What's the situation on your end?

I think even in Australia there is a lot of over-medication, but more importantly, over-diagnosis. I believe that if your child is diagnosed with ADD or ADHD it is to do with the parents, the diet of the child, and their general family environment. Parent are too busy these days, with the cost of living rising, they have to work more, to earn more money, and the poor child is left on the wayside.

You never heard about ADD or ADHD back in the 50's, 60's 70's and even the 80's. Why? Because there was always someone WITH the child. Someone for the child to come home to. Someone who would care for the child. While the Daddy went out and worked, Mommy stayed home to raise the children.

Who is doing that now? The system is. Preschools, before school care, after school care, vacation care. These kids have no idea who is the "boss".
Kids who have 2 working parents hardly ever see them. Parents put their kids in before school care, so that they can make it to work on time and beat rush hour traffic, they then put them in after school care, so they can work a full day, but by the time they get home, its dinner time, and bedtime shortly after. Its just so sad to see.

These kids don't need medication, they need supervision, boundaries, attention and love from their parents.

[Jenn]

I think even in Australia there is a lot of over-medication, but more importantly, over-diagnosis. I believe that if your child is diagnosed with ADD or ADHD it is to do with the parents, the diet of the child, and their general family environment. Parent are too busy these days, with the cost of living rising, they have to work more, to earn more money, and the poor child is left on the wayside.

You never heard about ADD or ADHD back in the 50's, 60's 70's and even the 80's. Why? Because there was always someone WITH the child. Someone for the child to come home to. Someone who would care for the child. While the Daddy went out and worked, Mommy stayed home to raise the children.

Who is doing that now? The system is. Preschools, before school care, after school care, vacation care. These kids have no idea who is the "boss".
Kids who have 2 working parents hardly ever see them. Parents put their kids in before school care, so that they can make it to work on time and beat rush hour traffic, they then put them in after school care, so they can work a full day, but by the time they get home, its dinner time, and bedtime shortly after. Its just so sad to see.

These kids don't need medication, they need supervision, boundaries, attention and love from their parents.

That is not always the case, though. My son knows who the boss is. He knows what he can and cannot do because trust me, he gets spanked and time outs. He also has plenty of love, and is rarely ever home..we are always out somewhere doing something together. But yet, he has ADHD. Some children do need to be medicated in order to progress in school. I'm pretty sure my son will need it since every little thing distracts him, he'll get up at story time and run around.. the kid can't seem to sit still ever unless he's up to no good..then he's quiet and still. He has been in daycare and school since he was 11 months old so I could finish school, and so that he can be with other children to help his speech but that is just for 6 hours a day.

What I believe is, too many parents rely on what doctors say. A doctor says their child has ADHD than it must be true! Why? because they have a fucking degree? The parent LIVES with the child, the doctor sees the child for what? 10 minutes at most? Who knows more? I have never let a doctor get final say in something before I agree with it. One doctor tried to diagnose him with ADHD, and I went and got a second opinion, PLUS I got the child study team involved, and we all had a meeting about him. I just had his doctor do a series of blood tests for any genetic disorders such as fragile x, chromosome tests, etc.. so I can rule out ANYthing else before he gets that title of a having ADHD and have to be in special education class at school. It PISSES me off how any parent will go by what one lousy doctor says. Doctors make mistakes too. They ARE human. Then they put their child on medications that he or she may not even need. What is that?

My son is getting one year to shape up. When he is 6, and still cant sit still, and still having his teachers complain about it, I may just put him on a low dose of medication. I am giving him just a year and I'm going to help him get on the right track.

While I don't blame the parents for their children being hyperactive, I blame them for not working with the child to make it better. I blame them for sticking their children in front of a tv instead of going out and burning off energy like a child has to do.

[stopwatch]

Everyone has made important points here about the diagnosis of ADHD, but what about other psychiatric disorders such as depression or social anxiety.

While the misdiagnoses and following over medication of ADHD is important, it gets more attention (because of the vigilance of caring parents), but these other disorders don't get any attention.

[possessedblanket]

Everyone has made important points here about the diagnosis of ADHD, but what about other psychiatric disorders such as depression or social anxiety.

While the misdiagnoses and following over medication of ADHD is important, it gets more attention (because of the vigilance of caring parents), but these other disorders don't get any attention.

With any psychological condition, there is a spectrum from "very mild case" to "very severe case" and everything in between. The problem is that doctors are not treating the condition on a case by case basis. Someone with severe, suicidal depression gets the same SSRI treatment that someone with very mild questionable depression gets. I believe that, at this moment, we do not know enough about these psychological conditions (biological causes, chemical triggers, etc. etc.) so as a result, we do not have the proper tools to treat them appropriately.

This leads to a situation where doctors apply the same treatment to a wide variety (and intensity) of psychological conditions, which leads to an over-medicated society. You want to kill yourself? Take an SSRI. You get nervous around people? Take an SSRI. You feel down in the dumps because you just got dumped? Take an SSRI.

[Sex?]

I have a question, what came first, the cure or the disease?

[stopwatch]

I have a question, what came first, the cure or the disease?

The disease.

[Sex?]

I'm specifically asking about ADHD. You can't be that sure. Didn't even think about it.

[possessedblanket]

I'm specifically asking about ADHD. You can't be that sure. Didn't even think about it.

It's hard to say Sex. For the sake of supporting the main point of this thread, lets say that the treatment came first. There are a lot of diseases and conditions that weren't around 10 or even 5 years ago. Suddenly there's an epidemic of adult-onset depression and restless leg syndrome. The more paranoid individuals would argue for a big pharm conspiracy manipulating general practitioners and so on. Or you could say that the condition had always been around, but it didn't reach "disease" status until someone, somewhere decided to develop a drug for it and sell it to the general public.

So the condition may have always been around since the dawn of time, but only after the development of the treatment was the condition marketed as a "disease that you should treat."

[stopwatch]

It's hard to say Sex. For the sake of supporting the main point of this thread, lets say that the treatment came first. There are a lot of diseases and conditions that weren't around 10 or even 5 years ago. Suddenly there's an epidemic of adult-onset depression and restless leg syndrome. The more paranoid individuals would argue for a big pharm conspiracy manipulating general practitioners and so on. Or you could say that the condition had always been around, but it didn't reach "disease" status until someone, somewhere decided to develop a drug for it and sell it to the general public.

So the condition may have always been around since the dawn of time, but only after the development of the treatment was the condition marketed as a "disease that you should treat."

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely idiotic to think that the cure comes before the disease.

Perhaps the epidemic started after the cure, but come on. I'm not about to entertain any other idiocy on the matter.

[Sex?]

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely idiotic to think that the cure comes before the disease.

Perhaps the epidemic started after the cure, but come on. I'm not about to entertain any other idiocy on the matter.

...right.

So it's impossible for a pharmaceutical company to come up with a drug that makes kids dull, and then announces that children that are bad in school have a disease that their cure will heal?

When I first heard of ADHD, I immediately diagnosed it to my self, when the truth is that I'm just freaking lazy.

[stopwatch]

...right.

So it's impossible for a pharmaceutical company to come up with a drug that makes kids dull, and then announces that children that are bad in school have a disease that their cure will heal?

When I first heard of ADHD, I immediately diagnosed it to my self, when the truth is that I'm just freaking lazy.

I'm not saying that CASES of fabrication don't exist - in fact, that is the whole point of this thread.

But there are, and always have been, people who have serious attention problems. Your experience is not everyone else's.

Your point of view is one that is very prevalent in our society. One that makes sure psychiatric disorders are still stigmatized - because they more or less are the FAULT of the sufferer. That point of view is not only wrong, it is catastrophic to the whole field of psychiatry and the people suffering from psychiatric problems. Psychiatric diseases are real. And until now, patients with these diseases have not received the attention, compassion and validity they deserve.

ADHD is just as real as cancer. But you don't have people running around questioning someone with lymphoma. Because of people like you, there are seriously ill people out there who are too embarrassed to seek treatment. People in a lot of pain, unable to function in life, who are a danger to themselves or others. It's not there fault, and they should be treated and viewed as any other sufferer of a disease.

Again, I want to emphasize that I believe the problem here is the overdiagnosis ("experts" not doing their job) of the disease. So there are an over-abundance of cases (some of which are not legitimate). But the disease itself is very real.

[Sex?]

I'm not saying that CASES of fabrication don't exist - in fact, that is the whole point of this thread.

But there are, and always have been, people who have serious attention problems. Your experience is not everyone else's.

Your point of view is one that is very prevalent in our society. One that makes sure psychiatric disorders are still stigmatized - because they more or less are the FAULT of the sufferer. That point of view is not only wrong, it is catastrophic to the whole field of psychiatry and the people suffering from psychiatric problems. Psychiatric diseases are real. And until now, patients with these diseases have not received the attention, compassion and validity they deserve.

ADHD is just as real as cancer. But you don't have people running around questioning someone with lymphoma. Because of people like you, there are seriously ill people out there who are too embarrassed to seek treatment. People in a lot of pain, unable to function in life, who are a danger to themselves or others. It's not there fault, and they should be treated and viewed as any other sufferer of a disease.

Again, I want to emphasize that I believe the problem here is the overdiagnosis ("experts" not doing their job) of the disease. So there are an over-abundance of cases (some of which are not legitimate). But the disease itself is very real.

Then let me put it this way, what came first, the drug or the diagnosis of the disease?
I come from a family full of psychos who were diagnosed all kinds of shit, and I believe 80% of them, but no one is perfect. People are born with flaws. That's one of the things that makes us stand out from one another. I can't say what a world where everyone was perfect would look like, but it ain't the world we live in.
Don't get me wrong, It's great that they invented a pill that invokes potential in a person, fuck natural selection, but I ask you this: will the day they create the cure for baldness be the day that baldness becomes a disease?

[possessedblanket]

Like I said in the last post, the possibility is definitely there that the diagnosis of the disease skyrocketed as a result of the treatment. The point of view that Sex holds is by no means wrong or misguided. In fact, skepticism can be very healthy in the medical care setting. It is easy for people to assume that doctors know best and blindly follow their instructions without question, but keep in mind that a medical practice is still a business. Businesses don’t have feelings, they have interests.

However (and it’s a big “however”), the argument that Sex and I just described is a very dangerous way of thinking about this issue (I’m glad that Stopwatch pointed this out). The reason it is so dangerous is because the argument we laid out is one tiny step away from illegitimizing the millions of people who are suffering everyday from their psychological conditions. Not only do these individuals have to bear the burden of their symptoms, they also have to bear the burden of society’s ignorant belief that somehow, their diseases are not “real diseases.” Imagine a person suffering from painful pancreatic cancer and everyone around him has the “oh, pancreatic cancer, that’s nothing, is that even a disease? Get a good night’s rest and come back to work you bum” attitude.

No one deserves to be put through that on a daily basis.

Like all issues with a lot at stake, a balance needs to be struck. Both Sex and Stopwatch have made very profound arguments that hit upon the heart of this issue from the opposite sides of the spectrum. Whether you’re a patient consulting your psychiatrist for the first time, or a concerned mother just trying to do what’s best for your child, it is important to have both viewpoints in the back of your mind in order to make a sound decision.

This thread has been very informative and enlightening with very productive debate. I want to thank all the contributors.

[Severina]

Everyone has made important points here about the diagnosis of ADHD, but what about other psychiatric disorders such as depression or social anxiety.

While the misdiagnoses and following over medication of ADHD is important, it gets more attention (because of the vigilance of caring parents), but these other disorders don't get any attention.


Recent studies have shown that anti-depressants have little more effect than placebo.