Iran is next?

[KommieKat]

I really enjoy debunking any lies and spews the U.S. government makes on its crusade to Democratize the world.

Again and again the US comes up with lies and than gets its ass handed right back:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8957

In a sharp reversal of its longstanding accusations against Iran arming militants in Iraq , the US military has made an unprecedented albeit quiet confession: the weapons they had recently found in Iraq were not made in Iran at all.

The US, which until two weeks ago had never provided any proof for its allegations, finally handed over its "evidence" of the Iranian origin of these weapons to the Iraqi government. Last week, an Iraqi delegation to Iran presented the US "evidence" to Iranian officials. According to Al-Abadi, a parliament member from the ruling United Iraqi Alliance who was on the delegation, the Iranian officials totally refuted "training, financing and arming" militant groups in Iraq . Consequently the Iraqi government announced that there is no hard evidence against Iran.

Instead of fighting the real evil like it's own self, the US likes to pick and choose to justify its militancy.

There is not ONE proof that can be provided by any one member here as to why we need war with Iran. I challenge you.

Oh, please spare me your brain-washed ideas and opinions.
Thanks.

[mcsmc]

Right...

Iran is producing supplying the precision EFPs they're using here. And there is NO amount of up-armor, sandbags, etc. that will give you ANY protection from an EFP.

I agree that we should stay the fuck out of Iran, though. Our military's already spread too thin.

[KommieKat]

Right...

Iran is producing supplying the precision EFPs they're using here. And there is NO amount of up-armor, sandbags, etc. that will give you ANY protection from an EFP.

I agree that we should stay the fuck out of Iran, though. Our military's already spread too thin.

After googling that (EFP) looks like they've been around since WW2.
They have been accused of just about everything and only latter does it turn out to be nothing more than FOX NEWS conservative war mongering right wing hypertension.

And if they are producing them, do they not have a right to self protection?

This is nothing more than the US flexing its muscles at the behest of Israel.
The best thing to do is stop supplying Israel with free weapons and let them take care of their own mess.

[mcsmc]

After googling that (EFP) looks like they've been around since WW2.
They have been accused of just about everything and only latter does it turn out to be nothing more than FOX NEWS conservative war mongering right wing hypertension.

And if they are producing them, do they not have a right to self protection?

This is nothing more than the US flexing its muscles at the behest of Israel.
The best thing to do is stop supplying Israel with free weapons and let them take care of their own mess.

You don't seem to understand.

An EFP (Explosively Formed Projectile) is NOT a defensive weapon. More on that in a minute. Yes, they've been around for awhile, but design improvements have been made since then.

I'm unable to go into too much detail regarding their design and effects, since almost all of that information is classified (the last thing we want is more fudgenuts making these things, or knowing how). However, the unclassified information on them is pretty much covered in Wikipedia here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_formed_penetrator).

Regardless, their useage is SHORT RANGE (<10m) against vehicles. They're often set off by an infrared detector (much like the ones used in burglar alarm systems and outdoor lights that sense movement, and thus turn on). NOTHING stops them from going completely through the vehicle. This is obviously NOT a defensive or protection weapon.

Multiple EFPs are the primary real threat in this area now. And yes, the truly effective ones are machine-made in Iran. The homemade ones are still relatively effective, but not nearly as much as the ones manufactured in Iran. I've seen vehicles that have been subjected to these things... suffice it to say, there wasn't much left of the vehicle, and human survivors of EFPs are rare.

Also, believe it or not, Israel does NOT depend on the US for weaponry. They have their own militia figured out pretty well without our help. We're actually influential in RESTRAINING Israel.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about before you go making random accusations. If you were to ever set foot in this country and open your mouth like you do here, you'd immediately be shot. Not only that, but it would be entirely justified, because it would be a blatant act of treason.

[KommieKat]

I agree that we should stay the fuck out of Iran, though. Our military's already spread too thin.


You don't seem to understand.


Also, believe it or not, Israel does NOT depend on the US for weaponry. They have their own militia figured out pretty well without our help. We're actually influential in RESTRAINING Israel.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about before you go making random accusations. If you were to ever set foot in this country and open your mouth like you do here, you'd immediately be shot. Not only that, but it would be entirely justified, because it would be a blatant act of treason.


You've proved that talking to you about this is like talking to a religious fanatic, therefore you can't discuss it rationally.

Let's suppose the Iran has nuclear weapons, which has been proved they are not. could they use them? No.
Do they have a right to manufacture them and use for deterrent reason? Yes.
They do have a right to use nukes as a deterrent against U.S.-Israeli aggression. It is clear that the United States and Israel are allowed to invade anyone at anytime they like.
You could even conceive that they will leak material to terrorist but seems that Pakistan is a more serious threat.

The goal of the United States and Israel is to stimulate secessionist movements from within. Israel does not want to see an independent, powerful, stable Iran, because it wants that position for itself.
Israel wants to be the dominating country in that volatile region, hence it's invasion of Lebanon and making Palestine nothing more than a large prison.

Since 2003, the clerical government of Iran has agreed to negotiate all important issues with the United States including Nuclear issues, two state system with Israel-Palestine, which Iran supports by the way.
Of course the Bush administration not only did NOT reject negotiations, they never took place. The U.S. refused negotiations period.

Agreed, you can say most things about the Iranian government.
It's not a very pretty one at all. But on the Nuclear issues, they have offered negotiations and the acceptance of a two state system.

It is the U.S that threatens Iran, which is a clear violation of the U.N. charter.
Article 2 of the U.N. charter outlaws threat or us of threat in international affairs. Looks like the U.S. is an outlaw state to me and outlaw states like the U.S. and Israel can do as they please.

If the U.S. decides to invade Iran, which is a defenseless country as was Cambodia in the early 1970's, the whole region will explode. It's military is almost non-existent and has threatened no one nor attacked no one.
The only threat Iran poses is a threat of regional dominance to Israel.

Sorry, but I don't lead nor follow lynch-mob mentality.
If you and your buddies want to see me as a traitor so be it.
That's your own ignorance, not mine.
I have proved with some base facts that I have some knowledge about this issue, so I have figured out what I am saying without assuming anything.

[mcsmc]

You've proved that talking to you about this is like talking to a religious fanatic, therefore you can't discuss it rationally.

And you continue to prove that talking to you about anything is like talking to a brick wall.

Seriously... how am I a fanatic when I just educated you on a KEY ELEMENT of a topic you're ATTACKING the US with (not surprising, considering your history)?


Let's suppose the Iran has nuclear weapons, which has been proved they are not.So you want to go on a "what if" spiel? No thanks. Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons. So we'll just leave it at that.


more what if bs


It is clear that the United States and Israel are allowed to invade anyone at anytime they like.According to what source? You may think you're sneaky inserting that statement randomly in the mix... but that was seriously out of the blue, and it's a completely baseless ACCUSATION. I seriously think you need to quit with your tirades.


You could even conceive that they will leak material to terrorist but seems that Pakistan is a more serious threat.Dude... wake up, try and sweat off some of your ignorance, and get educated. There are people from every country on Earth that sell information to terrorists. And no, Pakistan is NOT a more serious threat. Iran has more military power and capability of taking over Iraq (the reason we're eyeing Iran in the first place, in case you didn't know) than Pakistan ever will.


The goal of the United States and Israel is to stimulate secessionist movements from within.I already said this once. I'm going to say it again. Stop grouping the US and Israel together, because they're NOT a group. They're two separate, independent, sovereign nations. They work together on SOME things, but what you propose just isn't the case. Stick with the tin foil hat and UFO magazine, please.


Israel does not want to see an independent, powerful, stable Iran, because it wants that position for itself.Actually, no one EXCEPT Iran wants to see Iran powerful. It's already independent. Iran isn't friendly with any "good" nations. Period. Are you on a constant quest to defend bad guys?


Israel wants to be the dominating country in that volatile region, hence it's invasion of Lebanon and making Palestine nothing more than a large prison.Right... at least the Israeli government isn't terroristic. So what's your issue with that?


Since 2003, the clerical government of Iran has agreed to negotiate all important issues with the United States including Nuclear issues, two state system with Israel-Palestine, which Iran supports by the way.
Of course the Bush administration not only did NOT reject negotiations, they never took place. The U.S. refused negotiations period.Again, the nuclear weapons thing is a non-issue.


Agreed, you can say most things about the Iranian government.
It's not a very pretty one at all. But on the Nuclear issues, they have offered negotiations and the acceptance of a two state system.When was the last time Iran kept their word on anything?


It is the U.S that threatens Iran, which is a clear violation of the U.N. charter.Iran threatens the entire Middle East region. Besides, the UN charter isn't followed to the letter on everything, anyway.


If the U.S. decides to invade Iran, which is a defenseless country as was Cambodia in the early 1970's, the whole region will explode. It's military is almost non-existent and has threatened no one nor attacked no one.
The only threat Iran poses is a threat of regional dominance to Israel.Bullshit. Iran has a fairly powerful military, and war with them would be much harder than when we moved into Iraq. I don't know where you get your information, but I sure hope you don't pay for it... because it's worthless.


Sorry, but I don't lead nor follow lynch-mob mentality.No, you don't follow mentality at all.


If you and your buddies want to see me as a traitor so be it.You fit the definition.


That's your own ignorance, not mine.I think so far we're realizing who's ignorant.


I have proved with some base facts that I have some knowledge about this issue, so I have figured out what I am saying without assuming anything.The ONLY fact you brought up was a UN charter Google result, which really didn't have much to do with your point in the first place. I suggest trying harder next time.

[Shade]

so basicly you, who have never been in the middle east, are saying that mcsmc's arguement, based on facts, who has actually been in the middle east himself, where it is his job, where his life is on the line and at risk from these said weapons, is ignorant about this? All backuped up by a news paper in which every single article attacks the US, in which is produced by ... canadians.....way to go dumbass.

[KommieKat]

And you continue to prove that talking to you about anything is like talking to a brick wall.

You're a brain washed fanatic. Case closed.
You can't determine truth from fact anymore than you can brainwashed material that your inundated with on a daily basis as opposed to reality.
You live in a cocoon.


Seriously... how am I a fanatic when I just educated you on a KEY ELEMENT of a topic you're ATTACKING the US with (not surprising, considering your history)?

Let's not twist things around like you usually do, considering your history.
I am enlighting with facts about U.S. government lies. Fact from fiction.
Can't keep up? Stay in the Free-zone. More your par.


So you want to go on a "what if" spiel? No thanks. Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons. So we'll just leave it at that.

It's a form of speech. The U.S. has been crying about Iran having Nuke abilities, including you crying a river about it for some times.
"What If Spiel" means that Iran does not have any.
Simple enough?


According to what source? You may think you're sneaky inserting that statement randomly in the mix... but that was seriously out of the blue, and it's a completely baseless ACCUSATION. I seriously think you need to quit with your tirades.

Now what the fuck are you going on about? What accusations.
Spell it out, otherwise YOU'RE the only one with the accusations.


Dude... wake up, try and sweat off some of your ignorance, and get educated. There are people from every country on Earth that sell information to terrorists. And no, Pakistan is NOT a more serious threat. Iran has more military power and capability of taking over Iraq (the reason we're eyeing Iran in the first place, in case you didn't know) than Pakistan ever will.

Dude, you wake up. Wipe off the layer of nonsense you're fed ALL DAY LONG, 365 DAYS A WEEK.
Iran does NOT have the military power anything close to Iraq.
You're full of shit. Case closed.
Why don't YOU show sources.
Oh wait, you'll claim its secret, because you have no sources.


I already said this once. I'm going to say it again. Stop grouping the US and Israel together, because they're NOT a group. They're two separate, independent, sovereign nations. They work together on SOME things, but what you propose just isn't the case. Stick with the tin foil hat and UFO magazine, please.

Say it until you're blue in the face, means nothing.
Site a case when the U.S. did not support Israel.
Bet you can't. They've been bed partners since 1947.

U.S.-Israeli attack occurred on Lebanon, June 24th, 2006.

PLO have free elections, electing Hamas to parliament. US does not like that kind of democracy because you're not allowed to vote the wrong way in free elections, so instead funds are cut off, more atrocities are committed and starve them as punishment.

Now, you have annexation of the West Bank, with the full support of the U.S.
Palestinian territories of resource and land are going bye bye.
They are also taking over the Jordan Valley with again, US backing.
This is in complete violation of the World Court and UN Security Council.

From today:
"Bush is seen in the Arab world as tilting much too far toward Israel. Comments Friday from Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal about Bush's speech suggested that had not changed.

"We are all aware of the special U.S.-Israeli relation and its political dimensions," he said. "It is, however, important also to affirm the legitimate and political rights of the Palestinian people."

He also sharply criticized Israel for the "humanistic suffering weighed upon the West Bank and Gaza Strip population" of Palestinians. He said Israel's "continued policy of expanding settlements on Palestinian territories" undermines the peace process."

(Underlines are mine)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080517/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_mideast


Actually, no one EXCEPT Iran wants to see Iran powerful. It's already independent. Iran isn't friendly with any "good" nations. Period. Are you on a constant quest to defend bad guys?

Of course Iran wants to see a strong Iran, as does Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
I like how you quote "good". That shows you can't name any, except US and Israel of course, because that is who you are fighting for now and who you will die for.

That reminds me. It was the U.S. and Israel that eradicated secular nationalism in Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and other Arab countries.
For some strange reason, the US has always supported extreme fundamentalist Islamic groups.

Sorry for you, but the USA is the #1 bad guy on this earth, period.



Right... at least the Israeli government isn't terroristic. So what's your issue with that?

Wrong, Israel IS a terrorist state, second to the big daddy U.S. of A.
US spreads fear and terror no different than radical terrorist do and THAT is a big issue. Wonder why you don't see it yet?


Again, the nuclear weapons thing is a non-issue.

It WAS a "big thing" because the government you support was crying its ass off about it, claiming they had nuke capabilities.
Inspectors went in, checked things out and found nothing of the sort.
So NOW YOU SAY IT ISN't an issue when you were crying a river about it, well, 3 months ago?
How fucking ironic.


When was the last time Iran kept their word on anything?

Oh well, thats easy. I recall, as mentioned above, they allowed, with open arms, for inspectors to check their nuke sites out?
You short of memory or something? Maybe the chems you guys use out there is clouding your judgment.

Iran also supported, as well as the entire Arab world, a two-state system of Israel and Palestine.

The question needs rephrasing: "When was the last time the US or Israel kept their word on anything?"

Here's an example:
Gorbachev allows the unification of Germany on condition that the US will not allow NATO to expand eastward.
Clinton comes to power and broke the bargain. He did just what the US pledged they would not do, he expanded NATO eastward.

That's about a good as it gets for an example. Don't know your history? Google is your friend.


Iran threatens the entire Middle East region. Besides, the UN charter isn't followed to the letter on everything, anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong. It is Israel that wants dominance within that region as well as the US. For some reason, those Arab countries find themselves sitting on a territory that is rich in oil.
What the hell is US doing with Ethiopia and Somalia? Making buddies with them because WHO is across that gulf?? Hmmm??
Saudi Arabia perhaps?? With base rights in Africa, that makes the US neighbors to major energy-producing regions.

Wow, just wow. "....the UN charter isn't followed to the letter on everything, anyways."
So what the fuck kind of insight is this? That it is OK to do as you please, invade and conquer other nations because "the UN charter isn't followed....on everything."......??
Thanks for admitting the WHOLE fucking reason that your there in Iraq.
Because YOU went against the UN security council.
You just proved my point with that statement. Thanks!!



Bullshit. Iran has a fairly powerful military, and war with them would be much harder than when we moved into Iraq. I don't know where you get your information, but I sure hope you don't pay for it... because it's worthless.

No, your full of shit. Iran does not have "a fairly powerful military, and war with them would be much harder........blah blah blah......."
What are you, a fucking mini-nazi running around spreading this propaganda bullshit?
Let me guess, your commander is looking over your shoulder right now, Joseph Goebbels??
On the contrary, my information is worth a thousand times more than yours.
You sited nothing. You showed no sources. You fed only your opinions which amount to dog turds.

I won't even say "nice try" because it sucked.
Try harder, Gomer.







so basicly you, who have never been in the middle east, are saying that mcsmc's arguement, based on facts, who has actually been in the middle east himself, where it is his job, where his life is on the line and at risk from these said weapons, is ignorant about this? All backuped up by a news paper in which every single article attacks the US, in which is produced by ... canadians.....way to go dumbass.

Who are YOU to say where I have or not have been?
Why should he be a spokesman for the middle-east and what "based on facts" have been shown?

Dumbass? Go fuck yourself. Your about as brainwashed as he is, except he knows it and you don't. How sad.
Actually I am glad you came up with this. Tell me, you've been to China? Lived there?
So you, the hypocrite that you are, can say what you want about China and that's OK??
Thanks for proving how full of shit people are on this site and what hypocrites they are to boot.

"All backed up by news paper in whcih every....blah blah blah....article......"
What the fuck are you on about?
SITE YOUR SOURCES. Thanks.

[Shade]

You're a brain washed fanatic.

why is it anyone who doesn't agree with you, is automaticly a brain washed fanatic? Isnt that a brainwashing technique?

[KommieKat]

why is it anyone who doesn't agree with you, is automaticly a brain washed fanatic? Isnt that a brainwashing technique?

Why is it anyone who doesn't agree with you a "dumbass"?
Get back on topic.

Ah, to answer your question:
Yes, I think, feel and know that Gomer is ignorant.
I didn't say stupid. I said ignorant as in ignorance.

I will limit the name calling, but I will expect the same for all members posting in this thread.
If you cannot control it, don't expect me to reply.
Don't like it? Too bad.

[Silly Cunt]

Democratize

Love the word with a passion.


It almost has the same 'zing' as communism. except with less robotism.



Give HK back to the Commonwealth, give the anti US-sentiment a rest, and support a better planet. Cock.

`

[Shade]

Why is it anyone who doesn't agree with you a "dumbass"?
Get back on topic.

Ah, to answer your question:
Yes, I think, feel and know that Gomer is ignorant.
I didn't say stupid. I said ignorant as in ignorance.

I will limit the name calling, but I will expect the same for all members posting in this thread.
If you cannot control it, don't expect me to reply.
Don't like it? Too bad.

You fucking retard, you have first hand expierences and knowledge, and you have a completely biased article based on little to no factual data, who like you, has as much expierence in the middle east as the common chinamen. That is ignorance. I did not call you a dumbass previous, but i sure as hell will call you one now. Your petty belief that china is a great country, despite it's population limit, is constant massacres, revolts, discontent, poverty and then some how place it against america, who's biggest problem AS YOU SAY, is taking action, is about as credable as a 3rd grader giving a diseration on quantom physic's and the effects of time travel in a parrelel world.

I don't paticularly have any love for mcsmc, but atleast i'm not without the most basic reason to respect his view as an expert, or at the very least someone who has expierenced far more of the war in iraq.

On topic. Your article is not credable by any means. Neither are you. The only valid arguement in this entire thread on topic is that of the iran made explosive devices. Though i'm sure you will say like the holicost they never really existed!

[KommieKat]

.....way to go dumbass.


................common chinamen. That is ignorance. I did not call you a dumbass previous,


....... Your article is not credable by any means. ...............


You are a liar and I just proved it.
You're into the name calling again.
I seriously don't see how a "dumb ass or Retard" can come up with a thread like this.
This my last reply to you in this thread.

This has nothing to do with China so you are way fucking off topic.
You want to go on about China? Start another thread and just maybe I'll respond.

I like how you spew two paragraphs with total banality and than come around with only one sentence that is remotely "on-topic" (underlined topic).


If you cannot manage to respect the sub-forum rules, than stay the fuck out.
It is YOUR responsibility to prove me wrong.
I am older than you, how the fuck is it my fault you haven't been around long enough to see the atrocities commited by the U.S.-Israel players?

Shades logic with Shade talking:
" I haven't visited any other countries, therefore anybody who has must be a dumb ass and retard!"

It is clearly not possible to continue a rational discussion with an emotional child.
I understand that you're upset to see OUR country in a different, factual truthful light but deal with it like a man.
If you cannot keep the emotions out and argue with sources or facts to support you, then SHUT UP.

More than likely the mods will not clean this up and of course you are welcome to reply, but I am finished with you in this thread.

[KommieKat]

.



.......... Cock.


That's a big no, cunt.

[KommieKat]

" Bush 'plans Iran air strike by August'
By Muhammad Cohen

NEW YORK - The George W Bush administration plans to launch an air strike against Iran within the next two months, an informed source tells Asia Times Online, echoing other reports that have surfaced in the media in the United States recently."



http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html

[Fishypancake]

I really enjoy debunking any lies and spews the U.S. government makes on its crusade to Democratize the world.

Again and again the US comes up with lies and than gets its ass handed right back:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8957

In a sharp reversal of its longstanding accusations against Iran arming militants in Iraq , the US military has made an unprecedented albeit quiet confession: the weapons they had recently found in Iraq were not made in Iran at all.

The US, which until two weeks ago had never provided any proof for its allegations, finally handed over its \"evidence\" of the Iranian origin of these weapons to the Iraqi government. Last week, an Iraqi delegation to Iran presented the US \"evidence\" to Iranian officials. According to Al-Abadi, a parliament member from the ruling United Iraqi Alliance who was on the delegation, the Iranian officials totally refuted \"training, financing and arming\" militant groups in Iraq . Consequently the Iraqi government announced that there is no hard evidence against Iran.

Instead of fighting the real evil like it's own self, the US likes to pick and choose to justify its militancy.

There is not ONE proof that can be provided by any one member here as to why we need war with Iran. I challenge you.

Oh, please spare me your brain-washed ideas and opinions.
Thanks.


I agree. I knew it was going to be a bad idea from the start, but I figured "Okay, this will most likely last about 4 years. Everyone was all about 911, and al-quida this and that. I will save you my conspiracy theory bullshit, just saying, well put throughout the thread.

[KommieKat]

Lots of talk about U.S. and Israel attacking Iran. I hope this never happens.

"US echelons accuse Iran of contributing to the killing of American soldiers in neighboring Iraq. This is while the White House is yet to provide concrete evidence in support of its allegation.
Iran insists that it is committed to aiding Baghdad in its efforts to restore stability in the war-ravaged country.

The Bush administration also accuses Iran of developing nuclear arms, a claim which was rejected by 16 US intelligence agencies on December 3 when their assessment conceded that Tehran is not conducting a nuclear weapons program.

According to the most recent UN nuclear watchdog report on Tehran's nuclear program, there is no link between the use of nuclear material and 'the alleged studies' of weaponization attributed to Iran by Western countries."



http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=57625&sectionid=351020104