View Full Version : Fixing a trailer. Ya. *That* kind of trailer.
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So, this is how it all started. A friend of mine purchased a trailer. It was built in 1980, and the bathroom looks it. Yes, that's vinyl flooring being used as the tub surround. Apparently, you got this luxury feature at no extra charge when purchasing your new trailer. Do you see the telltale rot behind the toilet? Stepping anywhere near the toilet resulted in a nice *crunching* noise. Not for the faint of heart. And why-oh-why are the washer/dryer sitting on raw plywood? Hmmm? Doesn't look too bad from the surface. How hard could it be to slap a new floor in there?
SlimSkeeter
06-19-2010, 10:02 AM
I lived in a trailer like that once.....built in, I believe '72. My grandfather, so the story goes, walked on to the lot and told the salespeople in no uncertain terms, "I want the cheapest thing on this lot". And that is exactly what he got.
Anything with corrugated aluminum siding and Medium Density Fiberboard (a.k.a.: pressed sawdust) for sub-flooring is probably on the same quality continuum that your grandfather purchased. Here's what the floor looked like after I dug into it a bit...
19471948
If you look in the lower right corner of the 2nd pic, you can see the 1/8" (!!) plywood I'm holding back with my knee to expose the carnage beneath. It's typical of trailer owners to use this sort of solution. It may look OK when the "repair" is finished, but 1/8" plywood won't keep a toilet from rocking back and forth on its mounting, PLUS it raises it an extra 1/8" away from the drain flange, which makes the wax ring seal much more likely to fail. Which it did, and the water simply continued leaking below the new "subfloor", soaking the old glued sawdust - er "MDF" - anew.
Hmmmm.... my images must be too large. The site prevents uploading anymore because I've exceeded my quota.
SlimSkeeter
06-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Hmmmm.... my images must be too large. The site prevents uploading anymore because I've exceeded my quota.
hmm...upload them to a photo album here and link them from there, perhaps?
CrAnIuM
06-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Hmmmm.... my images must be too large. The site prevents uploading anymore because I've exceeded my quota.
What is the file type and size ?
I made some adjustments recently and may have set that one too low.
KommieKat
06-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Hmmmm.... my images must be too large. The site prevents uploading anymore because I've exceeded my quota.
Could you please visit my mother in Aiken, S.C.? She could use some help.
I'm sure your to get a nice glass of chilled lemon tea and southern hospitality! Is that enticing enough?
The only thing I can do from here is send her money each month, but alas, it's not enough.....
Josie
06-19-2010, 11:58 PM
Lucky friend o' yours ;)
Ive seen the pics on facebook. Night and day difference :D
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G using Tapatalk
What is the file type and size ?
I made some adjustments recently and may have set that one too low.
It's a 1.2MB JPEG. I was assuming that I had exceeded a data total for posting within the thread because some of the previous JPEGs I posted were 1.4MB.
Lucky friend o' yours ;)
Yup -- ironic that this thread ties in with some points I was making to Cranium on your preggers thread. In return for her spanking new bathroom, I now have the right to use her spare (albeit tiny) 2nd bedroom at will. I'm even allowed to customize/personalize it to my liking. She is moving into a sparsely populated area but with a tight-knit community where everyone knows everyone and recognizes (and snoops on) outsiders. This may prove useful if TSHTF.
As money gets more scarce and possibly completely loses its utility, it will be necessary to rely on relationships and providing value to others in order to get things of value in return that I may not be able to provide myself. If I can keep things working smoothly for others, and help provide security to them, I'll be much better fed than one of those walking wads of jello that only know how to get to Level 1001 on the latest PS3 game.
hmm...upload them to a photo album here and link them from there, perhaps?
How is that done?
SlimSkeeter
06-20-2010, 02:31 AM
How is that done?
Go to your profile, you should see along the left side a section titled Albums. With mine, there is a link that says "more". Click that, and at the new page there is a button to create a new album. Enter a title, perhaps a brief description, and make sure the album type is set to "public" or nobody will be able to see the pictures, then click "save changes". The next page has a button to upload pictures near the top right.
When done, you can get back into your albums through your profile page. Clicking on each individual picture will bring you to a page that shows you the full sized version of the pics, the direct URL for the picture, and the BB code (the last two being near the bottom right). Copy the BB code and paste it in the thread you wish you show it in.
OR, considering that the pictures originate from FB, near the top of the reply text box, to the right little globe is a button that you can use to put a picture in the reply. Copy the URL for the picture into the box that shows up when you click that button. and click ok.
CrAnIuM
06-20-2010, 08:04 AM
It's a 1.2MB JPEG. I was assuming that I had exceeded a data total for posting within the thread because some of the previous JPEGs I posted were 1.4MB.
Yep.
1 + MB per pic is a bit much and you will quickly go over the limit for your user group. I suggest you install a quality photo editor and reduce your pics to 800x800 pixels and a file size averaging 300kb for optimal online usage.
Server space, like your computer hard disc, is finite. Also the amount of space and the pic size increases with your usergroup.
Back to the trailer, I've seen the soft floor thing a lot. Usually in the bathroom, but sometimes around the corners. We got fucked on a mobilehome we bought for my father in law. It would be a good way to quickly slap a dwelling onto a piece of land, but trailer parks are a nightmare.
This is a pretty cool park though
http://goo.gl/maps/xMRI
And one thing I like about it, besides the location obviously, is it's the first place where I saw people kick the wheels out from under them, and then just set them on the ground. Go to street view and you can see it.
Here is a perfect example.
http://goo.gl/maps/CzKH
Great way to fix the subflooring.
That looks like a "pit set" unit, which means they dig a hole in which to drop the wheels. It allows walk-in access without porches and stairs (which is popular with the elderly, infirm or just plain lazy).
Trailer parks are like neighborhoods, apartment complexes and condos. Some are awesome, some are nightmares.
Side note: Unless you own your whole local governing unit, you don't "own" your house. What you own is a set of rights to a parcel of land, so "buying" a piece of land on which to plop your trailer is akin to renting with a balloon payment due and payable up front.
I love the concept of factory manufactured housing because it offers efficiencies and waste reduction strategies not feasible for on-site building. But, somehow, it's been corrupted into a screw-the-working-poor enterprise. I'd like to find solutions, but it's such a systemic and complex issue ... and I'm just one guy.
KommieKat
12-19-2010, 11:01 PM
I'm thinking of putting up a few trailers on my land and renting them out. There are folks who come to Aiken,S.C. to work on the Nuclear factory there on one or two year contracts.
Also looks like I have to have a water well drilled. I have NO idea what involves that. Any idea of costs? Thanks.
Kat -- need more info to answer the question, and it all has to do with zoning and how many "plats" you own. If it's one (i.e.: you own a 5-acre plat and it's the smallest divisible unit in the subdivision), then your zoning must be multi-family. Once you know that, you'll need to know how many wells & septics are required for a given number of units. Sometimes, it's a one-one ratio. Other areas let two units share one well, but require individual septics. Or, you could co-join all the trailers into a "single" multi-family unit via breezways, etc. It just all depends on where the land is, who governs your area and what sort of swag you need to spread around to get what you want.
That looks like a "pit set" unit, which means they dig a hole in which to drop the wheels.
I was going to use another example in a trashy park, because I was convinced it was a slab, but now I'm curious. How deep do they have to dig to do it that way?
Someone that worked for me lived in the trashy example. I looked at the bird's eye view, and it looks like they are doing some, but the whole looks like a foot tops. and the ground is hard as hell here, you really don't see basements.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pn03r85571q5&lvl=19.624215392100684&dir=357.67531883580995&sty=b&q=satellite%20mobile%20home%20estates%20&ss=yp.satellite%20mobile%20home%20estates~pg.1~rad.0,0628242392091301
And they feel solid, you can't stomp on the ground and knock shit out of cupboards.
And while the newport ones are beautiful, the Anahiem ones are like a shack in TJ. I looked up the newport ones. Average space rent is like $2700. That shouldn't even count as a trailer park.
Josie
12-20-2010, 10:54 PM
stomp on the ground and knock shit out of cupboards.
lol
For $2700/mo I'd better get a massage with a happy ending every day.
In the aerial pic you linked to, that looks more like 4' to me, using the car driving by as a reference. And 3-4' is about right. It just needs to be enough to provide a crawl space to service the pipes.
I was going to use another example in a trashy park, because I was convinced it was a slab, but now I'm curious. How deep do they have to dig to do it that way?
Someone that worked for me lived in the trashy example. I looked at the bird's eye view, and it looks like they are doing some, but the whole looks like a foot tops. and the ground is hard as hell here, you really don't see basements.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pn03r85571q5&lvl=19.624215392100684&dir=357.67531883580995&sty=b&q=satellite%20mobile%20home%20estates%20&ss=yp.satellite%20mobile%20home%20estates~pg.1~rad.0,0628242392091301
And they feel solid, you can't stomp on the ground and knock shit out of cupboards.
And while the newport ones are beautiful, the Anahiem ones are like a shack in TJ. I looked up the newport ones. Average space rent is like $2700. That shouldn't even count as a trailer park.
CrAnIuM
12-22-2010, 11:02 PM
just needs to be enough to provide a crawl space to service the pipes.
BAM !
KommieKat
12-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Kat -- need more info to answer the question, and it all has to do with zoning and how many "plats" you own. If it's one (i.e.: you own a 5-acre plat and it's the smallest divisible unit in the subdivision), then your zoning must be multi-family. Once you know that, you'll need to know how many wells & septics are required for a given number of units. Sometimes, it's a one-one ratio. Other areas let two units share one well, but require individual septics. Or, you could co-join all the trailers into a "single" multi-family unit via breezways, etc. It just all depends on where the land is, who governs your area and what sort of swag you need to spread around to get what you want.
Thanks for your info.
Found out that a well would cost me about $4000 to set up.
The septic about another $2000 or more.
Would need to asphalt the driveway from the main road (now all dirt and the rains wash it out) about $10,000.
Not counting the cost of the trailer itself.
I'd probably get no more then $500 in rent per month.
Would take ages to pay off. End result: not worth it.
General rule of thumb for landlording: 12% annual return on your investment, net-net (after costs, fees, taxes deducted). You're not looking to "get your money back out" because when you buy capital improvements, they generally hold a constant value (adjusted for inflation). Keep in mind that this assumes you maintain your capital, which must be accounted for in annual costs of doing business.
It's like buying a bond. You're not looking to get your money back over any specific period of time because the bond itself can be sold for approximately what you purchased it for. You're looking for a return. These days, true hard capital improvements are about the only way to do that. The physical capital (land + well + driveway + structures) is a pretty damn good hedge against inflation (especially if you already own the land and have taken the hit from the RE meltdown). So by purchasing capital (well & other improvements), you're protecting the value of the dollars you've earned (the stored value of your past labor) from currency devaluation (a.k.a.: "quantitative easing" or "printing money"). Renting it merely provides a cash flow (annual return) from your investment.
For every $500 in rent that you can charge, if you invest $33k, you'll realize a 12% annual return, after accounting for 33% of rent for expenses. Of course, if you're OK with a 6% annual return (which is still way better than money market rates) you can double your investment. So, if you can stack 3 units, 14x70, and redo the interiors to allow 2 tenants each, your maximum advised investment would be around $200k.
Thanks for your info.
I'd probably get no more then $500 in rent per month.
Would take ages to pay off. End result: not worth it.
For $2700/mo I'd better get a massage with a happy ending every day.
To be honest, because of the location, I'd thought it would be more. At least in that neighborhood, there are happy endings walking around everywhere. I remember doing a job for a guy living on one of the walk streets that had just moved from France, and he wanted to know where Corona was. He said "when I'm outside, nice looking girls walk by, and they ask to use my bathroom. After they I let them in, they always want to hang around all day. And they're always from someplace called Corona, I want to see that place."
And what the hell is this, common sense on the internet? ROFL.
General rule of thumb for landlording: 12% annual return on your investment, net-net (after costs, fees, taxes deducted). You're not looking to "get your money back out" because when you buy capital improvements, they generally hold a constant value (adjusted for inflation). Keep in mind that this assumes you maintain your capital, which must be accounted for in annual costs of doing business.
I'd probably get no more then $500 in rent per month.
Would take ages to pay off. End result: not worth it.
Don't forget the appreciation of your original r.e. investment.
KommieKat
12-23-2010, 12:17 PM
General rule of thumb for landlording: 12% annual return on your investment, net-net (after costs, fees, taxes deducted). You're not looking to "get your money back out" because when you buy capital improvements, they generally hold a constant value (adjusted for inflation). Keep in mind that this assumes you maintain your capital, which must be accounted for in annual costs of doing business.
It's like buying a bond. You're not looking to get your money back over any specific period of time because the bond itself can be sold for approximately what you purchased it for. You're looking for a return. These days, true hard capital improvements are about the only way to do that. The physical capital (land + well + driveway + structures) is a pretty damn good hedge against inflation (especially if you already own the land and have taken the hit from the RE meltdown). So by purchasing capital (well & other improvements), you're protecting the value of the dollars you've earned (the stored value of your past labor) from currency devaluation (a.k.a.: "quantitative easing" or "printing money"). Renting it merely provides a cash flow (annual return) from your investment.
For every $500 in rent that you can charge, if you invest $33k, you'll realize a 12% annual return, after accounting for 33% of rent for expenses. Of course, if you're OK with a 6% annual return (which is still way better than money market rates) you can double your investment. So, if you can stack 3 units, 14x70, and redo the interiors to allow 2 tenants each, your maximum advised investment would be around $200k.
That's a tremedous amount of info and I really appreciate it.
I've got to pass it on to dad and see what he has to say.
One thing you may have missed though, is the tax. I do understand that any damn thing a person does to make their home more livable will mean higher taxes.
The Gov just doesn't want to see people happy in their lives.
General rule of thumb for landlording: 12% annual return on your investment
another thing about that, is we deal with a different set of numbers. Because of the land prices, the 12% is slashed, but the principle rises. A great example is a house I rented in the mid 90's, in 92649. It was offered to me at 167k, and rent at the time was about $1500per.
15 years later, it's worth an easy 650-700k, but rents for about 2000-2200 tops. Even with the recent crash, it's appreciated over 30k a year, and if it was dumped at the peak price, 5 years sooner, and a few hundred K higher, the equity amount would have easily doubled. 2k a month/$2400 per annum is a much lesser #, and while pure gravy, you have the renters, and the periods of not having renters, cleaning up after the renters, and so on. It's almost easier to burn the house down and just sit on the lot. That house has sat empty for 10yrs btw. And those numbers of course are rounded, and the gross.
That's probably the real reason banks are just sitting on the empty forclosures in socal.
And what the hell is this, common sense on the internet? ROFL.
This is the "leave your stupidity at the door" forum, no?
Don't forget the appreciation of your original r.e. investment.
You can kiss RE appreciation goodbye for the remainder of our lifetimes. General RE values historically track incomes, which have been falling, in real (inflation-adjusted) terms for at least 5 years now (more like 20 or so if you believe shadowstats' version of the CPI). Unless this sitch changes PDQ, RE will follow suit.
The exception is income-producing land. Its value tracks the economic performance of its capital improvements. For example, if you own the mineral rights to a piece of land, and you invest in the capital to extract those materials (let's say molybdenite), its Y-O-Y currency-adjusted value will roughly track the market for high tensile strength steel.
Land intended solely for housing that is "owned" by its residents will likely continue to decline into the indefinite future. The only wild card here is the ostensible ability of the American middle class to arrest or reverse the inexorable slide of its earning power. I'll leave that prognostication to you.
Land intended for housing that is rented will actively track the incomes of its intended residents. The landlord's return on his/her investment is largely a function of creativity in keeping the cost of capital improvements low relative to the desirability of the living space. That's why I like Kat's idea for putting trailers on a piece of land. They're cheap to buy, but can be "improved" into a very desirable rental unit. All you have to do is know your market and know how they prioritize different attributes when assessing living spaces.
You'll also notice that I took taxes into account in my calculations. Trailers "improve" the assessed value of land very little. An "ugly" (at least on the exterior) 14x70 single wide adds anywhere from $10-20k to the assessment depending on where you live. Generally, this results in a $20-$30/mo property tax increase, assuming you live in an extremely high property tax rate area. That still leaves you $135/mo to spend on maintenance (assuming one visit by a plumber/electrician/carpenter, etc.) per month *before* calculating the ROI (the "net-net" vernacular *implies* taxes & insurance).
Now: don't get all upset about paying property taxes. In order for you to be able to get renters, they need to use public services (roads, buses, trains, etc.) to get to your location. Unless you'd like to pay for a private road, fire department, security services to escort them to work, and private tutors for their kids, don't bitch too much about legitimate local taxes that pay for those services. Granted, there's corruption. But the swag siphoned off local tax bases generally ends up in the hands of international bankers. And if you use an ATM, debit card, have a car loan, etc., etc., etc. (the list goes on ad nauseum) you don't have any right to bitch about the big boys having too much power. (i.e.: the ability to buy off local politicians, and then screw over the citizens when they award no-bid contracts to issue capital project bonds).
They prey on the greed of simpletons and they're very successful at it. The only way to stop them is to stop being so greedy, gullible and credulous.
Call me a cynic, but I don't see that happening in our current infantile population anytime soon.
You can kiss RE appreciation goodbye for the remainder of our lifetimes.
It surprising turns around reasonably quick here, and I ALWAYS consider the glass half empty.
Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to put in a mobile home, and that seems like it would be a godsend. Especially if you could put in 10 of em. http://goo.gl/maps/rsEk
It surprising turns around reasonably quick here, and I ALWAYS consider the glass half empty.
Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to put in a mobile home, and that seems like it would be a godsend. Especially if you could put in 10 of em. http://goo.gl/maps/rsEk
The only thing I can tell you is that your rear view mirror is a really crappy tool for navigating when you've just come off an arrow-straight interstate on the plains, and you're headed into a two-lane pass with a 5,000-foot climb ahead.
I know. Metaphors. Gotta love 'em.
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